A Judge Ruled That Dads Who Take Paternity Leave Can Be Fired

America has a long way to go when it comes to paid family and medical leave. We have one of the least impressive maternity leave situations in the world, leaving many new mothers little choice but to leave their newborns alone in order to return to work.

Some companies are choosing to offer paternity leave, so dads can stay home to be a support system for at least a few weeks, and maybe even bond with their children during that time, too.

Image Credit: Pexels

Other companies are firing new dads who try to do the right thing by their families, and get this – federal judges are agreeing they have the right to do just that.

Steven Van Soeren, a product designer at Disney Streaming Services, said that he was harassed by his coworkers after revealing his wife was pregnant, and was then fired after returning from two weeks of paternity leave.

He claimed a “pattern and practice of discrimination” that began around when his wife got pregnant and included insults, lower pay than he was promised, and even his home computer being hacked.

Image Credit: iStock

U.S. District Judge Naomi Reice Buchwald sided with Disney, which argued that pregnancy discrimination laws like Title VII of the Civil Rights Act “only provide protection to a pregnant employee,” not to an employee whose wife is pregnant.

Being a new parent doesn’t fall under protection; it only matters if you’re the one who gave birth.

She also dismissed his claim under the New York City Human Rights Law on the same grounds, and ruled against him on his Family and Medical Leave Act claim, too, because he was allowed to take the paternity leave “without incident.”

Advocates see this as a sign that lawmakers in each state need to make sure that soon-to-be-dads are protected from workplace discrimination. The ruling could certainly affect how fathers everywhere choose to use – or not use – the leave they’re afforded.

Image Credit: Pexels

Van Soeren said that HR was “distant” and “disinterested” when he reported the hacking, his boss telling him he “shouldn’t have a kid,” and even being doused in baby powder. They informed him he could resign, and when he did not, he was terminated without cause and without a severance package.

While it certainly sounds like a case of an employer discriminating against an employee because of their parental status, the facts are that the laws don’t exist on the books to protect fathers and fathers-to-be.

Something else that needs to change in this country – the sooner the better.

The post A Judge Ruled That Dads Who Take Paternity Leave Can Be Fired appeared first on UberFacts.

12 Times People Said Weird and Funny Things in Their Sleep

If there’s something we all want, it’s an interesting life. If you’re being woken in the middle of the night by a partner shouting nonsense, and they have no recollection of it in the morning, well…some days, that might be a bit too interesting.

For these 12 people, though, strangeness equaled hilarity, so I guess no harm, no foul.

12. Bless his heart.

That would be a bit disconcerting.

Image Credit: Pleated-Jeans

11. So super awkward when you’re just dating.

How do you broach that subject?

Image Credit: Pleated-Jeans

10. You can never have too many parachutes.

Better safe than sorry.

Image Credit: Pleated-Jeans

9. That’s kind of an existential question.

Are they dead or alive once they’re picked?

Image Credit: Pleated-Jeans

8. Yes, yes perfectly well.

How could they not?

Image Credit: Pleated-Jeans

7. How do you answer that question?

She probably just went back to sleep either way.

Image Credit: Pleated-Jeans

6. That’s a story idea if I’ve ever heard one.

I hope he wrote it down.

Image Credit: Pleated-Jeans

5. What a considerate spouse.

No one wants to miss the film!

Image Credit: Pleated-Jeans

4. She wasn’t going to argue with him like that.

I hope he came back to bed.

Image Credit: Pleated-Jeans

3. That’s how you intimidate a tiger.

Maybe. I wouldn’t try it.

Image Credit: Pleated-Jeans

2. What does he me no more bread?

I would have demanded an explanation.

Image Credit: Pleated-Jeans

1. It’s the last one that gets you.

How many trousers does a man need?

Image Credit: Pleated-Jeans

I wouldn’t want to live with a sleep talker, but I guess you can’t kick someone out for a thing they have no control over, huh?

If you live the sleep talker life, share your best stories with us in the comments!

The post 12 Times People Said Weird and Funny Things in Their Sleep appeared first on UberFacts.

People Shared Crazy Crimes Committed by Family Members

There are three types of people in this world – those who relish walking outside the law, those who would never dream of it, and people who just need the right set of circumstances to push them over the line.

These 12 stories are a lot of the first kind and a few of the third, and they’re told by family members who just can’t believe who they’re related to – a recipe for fun!

12. Unfit, for sure.

It’s not a bad crime or anything, but it was illegal at the time.
So, in Germany, up until a few years ago, we still had a general draft for the army. And a generation ago it was very hard to get out of it.

My uncle was a hardcore pacifist, so going to the army wasn’t an option for him. But being accepted as a conscientious objector at that time basically required you to be a devout Christian and use the bible as an argument for why you couldn’t kill another human. And my uncle was also atheist.

He couldn’t realistically object, didn’t want to go to the army and didn’t want to go to jail, too. So he waited…

He got sent his draft notice, passed the physical and got a letter telling him to report to X company under sergeant Y.

He wrote back a reply, on rose-colored paper, scented with perfume, about how much he was looking forward to serving under the strong leadership of Y, promising to obey every one of his orders, and that he can’t wait to experience life in the barracks together with so many strong and muscular men.

He was declared unfit for service shortly after.

11. What did he do to them?

My dad told me he once snuck into a tire warehouse, he cut the alarm and came in through a window on the roof, and stole a bunch of tires.

10. What is wrong with people?

My mom’s father was a Vietnam vet. He married my grandma he met while in Germany, adopted her oldest son and they had three daughters.

He physically, emotionally, and sexually abused all of them. When they were toddlers, he’d wake them up at 5am for PT (like basic training for adults). When they walked into a room he was in, he’d throw knives at them to “check their reflexes”.

When my Aunt graduated high school, she moved out and he lost his mind. He kept trying to convince her to move back in, and actually convinced her to come home to “talk” about it.

That day she was sitting on the couch and told him she would never come back. So, he pulled a gun shot her three times (once in the hand as she was trying to block her heart, once in the stomach as she stood up, and once in the ass as she turned to run). Then he walked to his back bedroom, and shot himself twice, once in the heart and once in the head.

I wasn’t alive but I read the newspaper article and it was horrible.

Side note, my family is really messed up bc my grandma would take us grandkids to his grave site and tell us what a great man he was….

9. There is nothing I like about this story.

My parents’ horse got loose, and somebody hit and killed it.

The horse disposal people wanted some relatively reasonable amount of money to come pick up the carcass, but my parents were like “fuck that. Hey, /u/hendergle – load that shit up on the flatbed and find somewhere to dump it.”

Me: “OK. Sure, pops.”

[calls stoner friend]

Me: “Hey, want to go dump a horse somewhere?”

Stoner Friend: “Sure. I have nachos.”

Me: “Cool”

Stoner Friend: “Cool”

So Stoner Friend and I got even more stoned than usual and took my parents’ flatbed truck out and tried to winch the horse up onto it. Turns out you really can’t winch a dead horse onto a flatbed. It’s not the winching that’s the problem so much as the 5ft lift up to the edge. We fucked up a lot of that horse trying, though.

Attempt #2: We went home and built a big-ass ramp out of plywood and 4x4s. It took most of a day and half a dime bag of weed. We argued a lot about whether or not we should bevel the part of the 4x4s that touched the ground. Final decision: neither of us knew how to do that, so we opted for no bevel.

Back at the horse, we wrapped the winch line around the head this time. Fun fact: Steel cable looped around a horse head in a slipknot arrangement is a good way to re-enact a famous scene from The Godfather. We didn’t quite decapitate Mr. Gooseberry (long may he gallop in the heavenly fields). But it wasn’t pretty. Nothing about a dead horse is pretty, but that bit in particular was remarkably not pretty.

We decided to go with our original idea: lash the front hooves together with rope. Small problem: We’d cut the rope at some point. Neither of us could remember why, or who did it. But nothing for it- we had to go home. Finding more rope required smoking half a joint, which I think is quite reasonable given the task we were set to.

Back at the horse again. Our engineering marvel worked. We had some initial worry that we would pull one or both of the horse’s forelegs out of its socket, but apparently dead horse sinew has quite a bit of tensile strength.

We used tiedown straps to lash the horse and ramp to the flatbed, initiating a discussion about why we hadn’t used those in place of rope, leading to an argument over whether or not that would have worked, leading to an awkward hostile silence as we drove around the ass end of South Dakota looking for a place where we could dump a dead horse.

I’m sure there were many places one could dump a dead horse in the middle of rural South Dakota. Strangely enough, though, we were both feeling a little paranoid. Every car that passed us was a plainclothes cop car. Every person standing out in their field was heading straight to their house to report us as soon as we went around the bend.

Finally, we found a field in the Black Hills National Forest that looked like a good spot. It had trees, which we thought the horse would like, and there was a nice parking area next to a snowmobile trailhead. Goose had never liked snowmobiles, so the idea of his skeletal carcass scaring the shit out of some Ski-dooer coming off the trail seemed like something that would have appealed to the old fella.

We backed the truck a little ways into the ferns next to the trail. Then we used a come-along to pull the dead horse off the flatbed.

About a mile into the way home, Stoner Friend said “Does your horse have tattoos?”

I was like “it’s a horse, not a fucking chief petty officer in the merchant marine. Why would it have fucking tattoos?”

Well apparently some horses have tattoos, according to Stoner Friend. It’s how they identify them if they’re stolen. (Note: Subsequent research revealed that this was usually only something done with thoroughbreds, which our horse was definitely not.)

Back at the horse again. “I think they put them on the lip, inside,” says Stoner Friend. Have you ever pulled back the lip of a dead horse to look for tattoos? Worst never-have-I-ever ever. There were no tattoos. But then Stoner Friend says “it’s probably one of those tattoos that only lights up under UV.”

By then, most of the weed had worn off, but there was that tiny bit of paranoia still holding on for dear life. “What if there’s a UV-light lip tattoo on your horse /u/hendergle? They’re going to catch you for sure!”

So there I was, in the early South Dakota summer evening, cutting the lips off of a day-old dead horse with a dull pocket knife. Bonus: we just threw the lips into the woods a little ways because:

“Nobody’s going to go looking for horse lips in the woods”
-Stoner Friend

And that’s how “illegally dumping an animal carcass on federal property” is the craziest crime I or anybody in my family have ever committed.

8. A complicated man.

My dads side of the family grew up as New Hampshire hicks.

My grandfather was stabbed in two different bar fights and burned down an entire country club because he thought they were too stuck up.

He was never caught and went on to earn a bronze and silver star in the Korean War, but unfortunately lost his leg too.

7. What a dork.

An uncle robbed a bank (or was an accessory to the robbers, idk).

His brilliant escape when the police showed up was to go to the roof and jump off.

He didn’t do time, just had to go to the hospital for a broken leg.

I’ll have to ask my mom when I get a chance, she knows the story better than I do.

6. That took a turn.

My cousin in Youngstown, Oh used to rob people selling goods on facebook.

Got caught after him and accomplice murdered a man over a PS3.

Good times.

5. Freaking hero.

My aunt had a boyfriend – let’s call him Mike, cuz that was his name. He was always the life of the party, everyone loved him. Always holding my aunt from behind and kissing her neck. A little too much PDA but hey, they were happy.

Turns out Mike was abusive. Like, very abusive. Physically and mentally. The neck kissing was him whispering in her ear, berating my aunt for making a fool of herself dancing. My grandfather found out about the abuse.

Went over to Mike’s place, knocked on the door. When Mike answered, my grandfather put a gun to his head and said “if I find out you ever touch my daughter again I’ll fucking kill you.”

Welp, a few weeks later my aunt shows up with a black eye and a sling. Mike.

He was found dead on the roof of his apartment building the following weekend. We all have zero doubt it was my grandfather’s doing. As a successful lawyer I am sure he had connections who could help.

4. Kids, man.

My Dad (when he was much younger and infinitely more stupid) regularly used to drink drive with his friends. It was the early 70’s, and no-one really cared. To hear him speak about it now, he can’t believe how stupid he was.

One night, he and his friend were out drinking. They heard there was a party going on at a pub across town and decided to head over. On the way they go past a large club with a queue of people waiting to go in. My dad decides to show off a bit and pull a skid. He miscalculated, hit a curb and flipped the car, sliding down the road on his roof. The car stops, they get out and leg it, to the cheers of the people in the queue! They get the bus back home and immediately call the police to report the car as stolen.

The police knew what had happened, but couldn’t prove anything.

3. Who could prove it?

Not sure if it should be considered a crime, but one of my great aunts was in an abusive marriage with a war vet who took to beating her and forcing her to play Russian roulette when he drank.

One night she managed to rig the gun so when he took his turn he blew his brains out.

She wasn’t charged.

2. The dregs.

My uncle was a small drug lord in Northern California in the 90s. He had a compound out in gold country, had to drive through 3 gates with guards to get to his house. I like never questioned it as a kid, just enjoyed heading up so I could fish in the stocked bass pond (which also had snapping turtles (as a line of defense)). He’d take me out shopping at the mall with a film canister full of coke that he’d take hits off of occasionally, shadowed by some bodyguards. One time we were out for a ride in his corvette going well over a hundred and got tagged by highway patrol. He talked his way out of the ticket (told the officer he was showing off for his nephew and got carried away, the officer thought it was hilarious), and told me it was lucky since he had a ton of illegal guns and drugs in the trunk and would have made a run for it.

He got arrested when I was 15. It was a full blown; Feds descended upon the compound in helicopters and swung through the windows with flashbangs. The whole nine. He was arrested, and since if he snitched on anyone above him he was, very bluntly, a dead man, he took the rap, was extradited to Lee in VA to serve a bit over 10 years. All he asked for while he was there was protein powder, he got prison ripped, and apparently beat someone near to death with a sock full of quarters for cutting in front of him at the payphone.

At some point in my life all 4 of my uncles on both sides (+ my dad) have spent time in prison for drug related offenses, but this particular uncle takes the cake

1. That’s definitely terrible.

My uncle went to prison for chaining a cop to the back of his bike and driving down the highway

I feel like an edit is needed here because I want to say I am not glorifying what my uncle did, I simply answered the question asked.

This happened in the 1960s before I was born, so I do not have many details due to the timing and fact he married into the family (and that side of my family is not very close at all).

What I do know is my uncle was apart of a very violent gang, I know nothing about what led to the attempted murder (yes, the cop survived somehow), so I do not know if the cop was good or bad.

But, I do not believe very many people, if any, deserve to be tortured in such a manner (or any manner).

I’m glad I don’t have (t00 m)any stories like these to share about my family.

If you’ve got one to tell, our comments are open!

The post People Shared Crazy Crimes Committed by Family Members appeared first on UberFacts.

All of These People Admitted They “Became What They Hated”

Life is strange, and along that road we often find ourselves taking turns we didn’t expect, or even that we swore we’d never approach.

It’s a tricky business to untangle, but Reddit tried to do just that with this post from user Deskarthus:

When did you "become the very thing you swore to destroy"? from AskReddit

So, what are the ways in which we’ve shifted to “the dark side?”

Let’s see what folks had to say.

1. Changing the game.

I make video games and 95% of my career have been on consoles.

Had to help out a team at work a few years back with a mobile game and they made me add in the bit where the pop up comes up asking you to rate the game.

I died a lot inside then.

– paulc899

2. Addiction is real.

Won the 8th grade poetry slam by writing a poem about my anger towards my grandfather for drinking and smoking himself to death.

By my 22nd birthday I was putting down 2 packs of cigarettes and a pint every day.

Now I’m 3 months sober and clean from cigs though.

– chick3nn00dlesoup

3. Why settle?

In the late 80s, early 90s, I was a typical skater/punk/metal head teen. I swore up and down I would never “settle down”. I didn’t want some 9-5 life with the house and family.

I am happily married, have a great career, and love every second of it.

There are times when I sort of wonder what my life would have been if I just kept doing what I was doing.

But I’m pretty sure I would be miserable. Screwing around and partying is fun when you are 17-23, but in my 40s.

F*ck that. I’m tired.

– sebrebc

4. Ambition for what?

I always said I hated people who were just content in their jobs and didn’t want to rise up

I love the work I do, and I want to get to the highest skill set of it- but frankly I’m not sure if I am interested in a real promotion at this point in my life.

– Un1cornW4rr10R

5. The cycles continue.

When I realized I have a lot of the same toxic/abusive patterns as my father

– azallday

6. Finding your voice.

My dad liked to do awful impressions of Disney characters that he spent way too much time teaching himself.

He told me that as a kid, he was often lonely, and did this as a way to make himself laugh.

I yelled at him when he did it.

A decade after his death, I realized that I’m constantly doing awful impressions of characters from games and cartoons I liked as a kid.

You should hear my impression of Strong Bad. No, you really shouldn’t.

– ugagradlady

7. The begrudging ladder.

My company’s director forced me to accept a promotion to management.

– ThadisJones

8. Pet peeves.

I always said I’d never be a pet person…. but we’re fostering a cat while its owner is in hospital and now its 1AM and I’m on the sofa with Buddy cuddling up to me and…. yeah…. it’s kinda cool.

– TannedCroissant

9. Age brings weariness.

Just like most other people, I thought I’d always be super laid back, always up for anything and super energetic for hours off 2-4 hours of sleep.

When I was a senior in highschool I worked a bunch of over time on top of school and still went out with my friends.

Now I work less hours, rarely have the energy to see my friends, and most of the time I feel like a grumpy old introvert.

– torc-24

10. Whose side are you on?

My entire life while growing up all I wanted to do was be a police officer. Received my bachelors in Political Science and minored in legal studies and criminal justice.

Received my masters in criminal Justice. Scored top 5 in physical and written exams at every agency I applied.

No criminal history and no previous drug use.

I was denied by every single agency.

Entered law school, applied for an internship at the DA’s Office while in law school, was denied.

Passed the bar, and applied at the District Attorney’s office as as a criminal prosecutor.

Denied even though I had criminal law experience and my courses emphasized criminal law.

Now I am a criminal defense attorney.

– BeetsBearsBattle

11. So loud!

My parents always told me the cartoons I watch where pretty ridiculous like spongebob, invader zim, pokemon and ren and stimpy.

I was gonna be the cool adult and let kids watch all the hip cartoons just like I did.

Fast foward a few years and I’m seeing my little cousins watch stuff like teen titans go, power puff girls (reboot) and loud house 24/7 and I wanna rip my hair out every time I see those.

– HappyMaskMajora

12. Plug in, tune out.

I got social media

– __Augustus_

13. Alone again, naturally.

I used to find it weird that people getting depressed over not having bf/gf and desperately looking for one. 5-6 months ago my relationship of 2.5 years ended and i am all alone.

I feel kinda lonely, and down. I feel like i need a romantic relationship but there is covid so i hardly see people.

I am not yet desperately looking for a relationship but i am heading that way

– Topsyturvymeh

14. Hard to forget.

I used to forgive people when they wronged me, but I met a person who was likely a sociopath and they gave me enough insight to know that people will INFINITELY take advantage of forgiveness..

So now I tend to just shoot people down (within reason of course).

– InfamousClown

15. Tale as old as time.

I didn’t like gay people, guess what

– Batman6904

Change isn’t always bad. Be ready to embrace it when it’s nice, and kick it to the curb when it’s showing you red flags.

Have you had an experience like this?

Tell us about it in the comments.

The post All of These People Admitted They “Became What They Hated” appeared first on UberFacts.

Check Out These Outrageous Bits of Advice from Grandmas

I get kind of annoyed when people talk about the elderly like they’re shocked these folks have lived lives.

They’re not teddy bears, they’re not cartoon characters, they’re human beings with vastly more experience on this planet than the people patronizing them.

That said, I *do* understand why it can feel a little embarrassing/funny/I-don’t-know-what-to-do-with-this when, say, an older member of your family opens up to you about elements of their lives you hadn’t thought about…and maybe didn’t want to. Like this thread on Reddit revealed:

My grandma once chastised me for wearing underwear to bed because I need to "let my taco air out". What bizarre advice have you gotten from the older and wiser? from AskReddit

But this user wasn’t alone. There’s plenty of outrageous grandma advice to go around. Let’s hear some more.

1. When you got it, flaunt it.

My Grandma (a model during the depression era) use to tell me, “Be proud when you walk!

Throw those t*ts out!” When I would tell her I was only nine and I did not yet have t*ts, she would just say, “You guess where they are gonna be and throw that out!”

2. Secrets revealed.

So I am a DD while my mom is like a -A. Because my mom hates feeling left out, she has one of those pairs of rubber boobies you can put in your bra to make it look like you have mosquito bites. So one day, while were visiting my grandma, my mom’s getting dressed while she’s in the room. My grandma stares at my mom for a solid minute and then this happened:

in a thick German accent ” Mary! ”

” What? ”

” You have no teets! ”

” …. ”

I could not have laughed any louder.

– jennah101

3. The hero we need.

The job for my siblings and me every Christmastime was to help my grandma decorate her tree. For as long as I can remember, my grandma had a gold foil ornament on her Christmas tree. When I was probably about 11 or so, I got the nerve to ask her what it was, already kind of knowing. Sure enough, she calmly told me “oh, that’s a condom wrapper. I want all my kids to practice safe sex”.

Way to go Grandma with the Magnum.

But really- safe sex is awesome.

– megafart

4. Butter me up.

my grandma once told, while very drunk, if you don’t have lube on hand melted butter works just fine..

– scllfof4

5. Hate the game.

My grandma, whilst once discussing my new boyfriend, was asking why I was only dating one man. Her 87 year old advice to 23 year old me was That in her day she would line up multiple dates, with multiple men to try them out, and once you went on enough dates with one person, then you would go steady. That was the norm. I had to nicely explain to my super conservative irish catholic grandmother that that is what we so kindly refer to as a “player” nowadays. Her response:

“Well, I guess I was a player then.”

– scnavi

6. What a pitch.

My grandma warned me that boys “make a tent” in bed every morning. Thanks Gramma:/

– [user deleted]

7. Wait for it.

My grandma told me not to date girls from the south in college because they all wanted to get married too young…surprisingly good advice

– [user deleted]

8. Work it.

When I excitedly told my grandmother that the boy I liked was going to prom with me, she said “Don’t wear anything with zippers. Make him work for it.”

She was a spectacular woman.

– senatorkneehi

9. Remember this.

My gram gave me a diary when I went to college and said “write a lot, it’s the only way you will remember what happened in college”

Mildly accurate.

– RatApples

10. Mr. Fancy Pants.

I made a joke about anal sex and KY at my girlfriend’s house and her 70 year old grandmother tutted at me and advised me that in her day vaseline was good enough for anybody.

– cwstjnobbs

11. Love me everywhere.

My grandmother and I had a conversation as follows

Grandma: Hows armoredporpoise’s girlfriend in bed?

Me: Umm…

Grandma: Does she let you put it both holes? Your grandfather used to love me everywhere. If you can’t love her everywhere then you shouldnt love her anywhere.

– armoredporpoise

12. Do what you want.

“Slut? Honey, that’s just called doing what you want. And if you’re happy, who gives a d*mn?”

“Those b*tches be crazy!” said after nearly being clipped by a car full of college girls.

I love my grandma. She’s a teeny little old lady, aged 82 years, from Virginia.

– [user deleted]

13. Over/under.

My grandmother once told me “the best way to get over a man is to get under another.”

– not2old4ffvii

14. Stalling for time.

When I came out to my grandma, she smiled and told me not to have sex with dudes in restroom stalls. Thanks, Grandma!

– cromble

15. Too involved.

When I was 19 my (then) girlfriend went to Europe with me for the summer to visit my family. Now, my family is generally pretty cool with the whole sex thing. I always got a separate room for me and any girls I was seeing whenever I was staying/ visiting them, etc, etc. This was, however, the first time my grandmother was faced directly with this issue. Anyway, we arrive to the house late at night after a long-*ss flight, have a huge *ss dinner, and my girlfriend goes upstairs to our room to get ready for bed. I try to go up too, but my grandmother drags me aside and proceeds to give me the most awkward sex talk of my life.

Grandma: Have you two… had… intercourse yet?

Me: Well, we’ve been together for half a year now, so yeah

Grandma: Are you going to do it tonight?

Me: …What?

Grandma: Are you going to have intercourse tonight?

Me (starting to get creeped out): Probably not tonight…

Grandma: Do you use birth control?

Me: Yes, she’s on the pill

Grandma: That sounds sketchy, you should use condoms too

At this point I just want to get out of there, so I just agree with her hoping she’ll let me go

Me: Okay grandma, we’ll use condoms too. I’m gonna go up…

Grandma: Actually, maybe its better if you don’t finish inside her… Just cum outside! I can give you a rag!

Me: …upstairs

Grandma: Are you sure? I have lots of rags.

Me: GRANDMA NO

– not_vulva

Hey, there’s some solid advice in there!

What memorable bit of input have you gotten from your grandma?

Tell us in the comments.

The post Check Out These Outrageous Bits of Advice from Grandmas appeared first on UberFacts.

Read About the Ways People Subtly Admit They Lost the Argument

I went to a private “university model” religious high school where I graduated in a class of nine people.

Needless to say, I’ve got some complaints. And…stories.

Nevertheless, there is one element of that education for which I will truly and earnestly be forever grateful. My sophomore year there, I took a logic class.

The second semester covered “formal logic,” which is basically a math-like breakdown of the structure of arguments, but we started with “informal logic,” which is the study of the way people reason and try to convince each other rhetorically, and the traps they fall into. It covered, basically, this Reddit post:

What screams "I lost the argument"? from AskReddit

So let’s see how much I can remember. I’ll try to label these bad bits of argument rhetoric. Anything with an official fallacy name I’ll put in Italics, anything I don’t know the name for I’ll just try to coin something.

1. I’d call this the “argument from sudden amnesia.”

When they start responding with “who asked” even though they started it.

– PsionicSenpai

2. Red herring fallacy.

Trying to focus on side points of yours that dont really have anything to do with the main point as a means of diversion

– ——-Nobody——-

3. Basically “red herring,” with a hint of chaos.

When they go completely off topic

– PlethoraOfZzzzx

4. Appeal to guilt.

“I guess I’m just a terrible mother!”

– excessofexcuses

5. The “knowing things is dumb” gambit.

When they just start yelling shit like “LOOK AT YOU! YOU KNOW SO MUCH? SMART *SS B*TCH! YOU KNOW THIS IS WHY YOUR EX CHEATED! YOU’RE INSUFFERABLE!” and loudly banging things, stomping, etc

– drunky_crowette

6. Conspiratorial thinking.

When youre told “thats what they want you to believe”

– YeahWhatOk

7. Ad hominem fallacy.

When personal attacking starts

– FondOfPink

8. I’m not saying you can’t think that, I’m just saying you’re wrong.

“I have a right to my opinion.”

Of course you do, and usually at this point in the argument no one has said otherwise, but that doesn’t mean your opinion is supported by evidence.

– therealyoyoma

9. The false apathy approach.

“Whatever, I don’t really care anyway.”

– coughcough

10. I’d call this the “appeal to fake news.”

Writing off reliable sources of information that they don’t like.

– fatmatt587

11. “Google doctorate syndrome.”

When they tell you to “do your research.”

– Actuaryba

12. Good ol’ fashioned evasion.

A refusal to answer direct questions that are clearly designed to demonstrate the flaw in your reasoning.

The only reason you have to refuse to answer a question is if you know that the answer is going to lead you to admit that you’re wrong.

And if you can’t admit that you’re wrong, then you’re no longer interested in meaningful discussion.

– ThatScottishBesterd

13. This is called “lying.”

When they start saying inaccurate stuff.

You can’t win against wrong.

– NicoRic12

14. The “irrelevant first amendment discussion.”

people tend to confuse being legally in the clear with being justified more broadly.

I remember arguing with a friend that a particular movement was stupid, and he replied, “Well the same right that allows you to criticize them allows them to do it.” And it’s like, yeah, of course they have the right to do it. That doesn’t make it a smart thing to do.

– therealyoyoma

15. Appeal to accomplishment?

“You’ll change tune when you’re older”.

No I won’t and I’m over 30 already.

– Paxa

If you’ve never read up on informal logic, give it a go. We can make the internet a better place together.

What argument tactic can you not stand?

Tell us in the comments.

The post Read About the Ways People Subtly Admit They Lost the Argument appeared first on UberFacts.